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daddyact said...
An OL succeeds as a whole, as the sum of it's parts, and not judged by the individual parts. Let's not forget that no matter how bad Detroit was back when Sanders was playing, they were still NFL caliber players, and Detroit lost most of the time because their defenses were so bad.
Nebraska has had some stunning OLs that never produced NFL talent at the same level, but did make all-conference RBs out of some good, but not great runners.
It's not about my opinion. Hell, I'm wrong all the time. The proof of any OL is in what they produced on the field. Those OSU teams were the best the Cowboys ever produced until very recently. Great RBs require competent OLs to open holes for them.
That's a fact of life, which you are trying to deny.
However, that's off the point of this thread. I'll take a top notch CB over a good RB anytime. With a competent OL I can turn my hard-running back into an all-conference performer and he doesn't need to be Barry Sanders.
Unless I have great CB play, I can count on giving up points to almost any decent QB-WR combo.
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daddyact said...
An OL succeeds as a whole, as the sum of it's parts, and not judged by the individual parts. Let's not forget that no matter how bad Detroit was back when Sanders was playing, they were still NFL caliber players, and Detroit lost most of the time because their defenses were so bad.
Nebraska has had some stunning OLs that never produced NFL talent at the same level, but did make all-conference RBs out of some good, but not great runners.
It's not about my opinion. Hell, I'm wrong all the time. The proof of any OL is in what they produced on the field. Those OSU teams were the best the Cowboys ever produced until very recently. Great RBs require competent OLs to open holes for them.
That's a fact of life, which you are trying to deny.
However, that's off the point of this thread. I'll take a top notch CB over a good RB anytime. With a competent OL I can turn my hard-running back into an all-conference performer and he doesn't need to be Barry Sanders.
Unless I have great CB play, I can count on giving up points to almost any decent QB-WR combo.
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Skerz said...
Well your opinion would certainly be different than that of NFL GM's and scouts.
Over the past 10 NFL drafts here are the numbers regarding CB's and RB's.
287 CB's have been selected in the NFL draft compared to 196 RB's. Even though twice as many CB's see the field compared to RB's, RB's are selected at a more often clip than CB's.
Of those 287 CB's that were selected only 40 (13.9%) were in the 1st round and only 9 (3.1%) were in the Top 10 overall picks with the highest selection used on a CB at the 5th position.
Of the 196 RB's selected, 28 (14.2%) were selected in the 1st round and 7 (3.5%) were selected in the Top 10 overall picks with the highest selections used on a RB at the 2nd position.
While the numbers are close, it does show that GM's and NFL scouts do lean towards RB as being the more important position.
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daddyact said...
and how many of those RBs have failed to produce?
They keep drafting RBs because they can't find one who succeeds in today's NFL to the extent they did twenty years ago.
CBs, on the other hand, get drafted and keep their jobs, especially the best ones.
RBs are a dime a dozen. NFL CBs are much harder to find.
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Skerz said...
How?
Why do NFL GMs and Scouts conitinue to draft RB's at a higher clip and more important drafting position than CB"s if CB's were waaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy more important?
Unless you believe you know more than the 32 GM's and hundreds of NFL scouts, then your opinion doesn't hold much water.
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nustudent said...
Your logic above isn't as black and white as you make it out to be.
I believe defense trumps offense. Also believe the style of offense you run can make a decent RB look good. I dont think you can say that as easily on defense.
Not to mention the specifics of our situation. We have a number of other talented guys at RB. We don't at CB
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Skerz said...
Yes it is Black and White.
I was stating that your opinion isn't what NFL GM's and scouts believe.
If you think otherwise over the last 10 years then you are questioning the entire landscape of what those guys do.
Thus your 'logic' doesnt' hold water unless you belive you know more than the guys selecting players and paying athletes millions of dollars based upon their decisions.
Black or White. Are you more in the know than those guys?
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daddyact said...
No, because RBs DON'T keep their jobs. Because RB has the shortest NFL lifespan of almost any position, so they're constantly looking for someone who can stay healthy.
Look, I don't give a rat's azz if you guys agree with me or not.
The statistics back up what I'm saying.
Go ahead and trust your opinions rather than the facts.
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Skerz said...
Yes it is Black and White.
I was stating that your opinion isn't what NFL GM's and scouts believe.
If you think otherwise over the last 10 years then you are questioning the entire landscape of what those guys do.
Thus your 'logic' doesnt' hold water unless you belive you know more than the guys selecting players and paying athletes millions of dollars based upon their decisions.
Black or White. Are you more in the know than those guys?
If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion.
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Skerz said...
Maybe.
But of the 40 1st round picks of CB's and the 28 1st round picks of RB's we have the following:
10 RB's have been named All-Pro.
14 CB's have been named All-Pro.
Certainly looks like the RB's have not busted out as much as CB's.
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daddyact said...
I'm not arguing about what they believe. I'm arguing about what they do when they draft a player.
The 2011 draft is a perfect case in point. Out of the first 100 players drafted, 15 CBs were taken, while only eight RBs were selected. Heisman Trophy winner Mark Ingram was chosen behind three CBs.
That's black and white.
2010? Six CBs taken in the top fifty, while only four RBs were taken. Top CB was #7. Top RB was #9
2009 saw four CBs in the top 50. Three RBs were selected in the top 50.
You can argue about drafting and all the other bullroar you guys have decided to gang up on me with, but the fact is that CB is a far more important position in a pass-happy league than RB will ever be. When and if the league ever returns to a running league, perhaps RB will once again be a crucial position, but it's just not anymore.
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Skerz said...
So your stats agree with me is what you are saying?
Call me stupid again, but an NFL team only fields a single RB compared to 2 CB's on any given down.
Thus, when you claim numbers like 15 vs 8 or 6 vs 4 you are actually giving creedence to my opinion.
What is sad is even in a pass-happy league you can't bring forth a statistic that backs CB being more important than RB.
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Skerz
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Skerz said...
Yes it is Black and White.
I was stating that your opinion isn't what NFL GM's and scouts believe.
If you think otherwise over the last 10 years then you are questioning the entire landscape of what those guys do.
Thus your 'logic' doesnt' hold water unless you belive you know more than the guys selecting players and paying athletes millions of dollars based upon their decisions.
Black or White. Are you more in the know than those guys?
This post was edited by daddyact on 3/11/2012 at 1:37 AM
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Skerz said...
Give a single statistic that backs your opinion in favor of CB being more important than RB.
I'm asking for ONE. Just ONE that would back your opinion.
Reaching? I've given plenty of statistics that back my opinion and you have given nothing. Other than personal opinions and 'reaching' statements you haven't put forth a single statistic that backs your opinion.
Whats next, you call my facts stupid again? Or do you actually buckle in and give forth reasonable and well thought facts that can back your opinion?
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BigGameJames said...
We can cherry pick examples all day long, but I'll stand by a top notch IB carrying an offense on most days, especially in college--which is what we originally started talking about with Braylon Heard.
Not sure you can say that about a big 10 CB.
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Yippppeeee on position changes