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PSU--hahahahahahahaha--karma for Joe Scum

  • daddyact said...

    We're talking about two completely different things.

    Paterno ran the program so that they would never go through probations and sanctions. Very clean program. Much like Osborne's.

    On the other side is the criminal acts that became prevalent over the last ten to fifteen years. That has naught to do with the NCAA, and is totally about personal behavior. It's nearly impossible to control a another person's behavior, if they are intent on breaking the law.

    About all you can do is get rid of them.

    As I said, the issues are two sides of the same coin, but do not come into contact with each other.

    So you don't think the NCAA should make PSU suffer for things employees who are no longer there were responsible for? That is what the NCAA ALWAYS does. So should USC have skated once Pete Carroll left town?

    The institution is the one who employed these people, and the institution is responsible for ALL of their actions while in their employ, whether you or I or anyone else thinks it's fair or not.

    If "getting rid" of the culprits is ever accepted as appropriate action for any sort of wrong doing by universities, it's going to be a very sad day. Why wouldn't people cheat/break the law? Hell, they'd probably encourage their staff to do it! Go ahead, we won't get in trouble, we'll just fire you and say hey look, we got rid of those darn troublemakers. No reason to come after us.

    no

    Big Red Phoenix ●

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  • OldGoldKnights said...

    One big reason why OJ wasn't removed from the HOF is because the murders he was found guilty of (that is in civil, not criminal court) happened long after he was done playing football. What he did after football may be forever tainted in the eye of the public, but like it or not, it does not delete his football accomplishments from history. It's undeniably an odd situation though.

    BTW, he was never found guilty of murder. He was determined by a 2/3 majority of the jury to be criminally responsible. Very,very different matter.

    They are not going to remove JoePa from the HOF. Period!

    If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

    daddyact

  • daddyact said...

    So if I witness a robbery and say nothing I'm just as guilty as the people perpetrating the robbery, and should receive the same punishment.

    That is not how our system of justice works. There are degrees when it comes to crime, and no, the acts of the people who said nothing about Sandusky's crimes are not just as guilty, nor were their omissions just as heinous.

    Again, you're talking about wanting to punish a dead man, and a bunch of people who have already been fired from their positions at the University. But that's not enough, let's make certain we punish the people who replaced them, as well as the student-athletes who currently attend the school.

    Paterno's dead, and this is what killed him more than anything else. I guess that's not punishment enough.

    I have no idea what you're suggesting when you comment that no one knows how deep this actually went. Besides the obvious tasteless joke I could make, what exactly are you implying?

    BTW, I can't think of a single instance in which anyone has ever been removed from the HOF of any sport. Can you?

    When I say no one knows how deep it goes I am talking about the cover up. For all I know the head honcho of the university knew it was happening. There is no evidence one way or the other.

    Firing people means censored when they have all the money from their time there. It would be like if you were found guilty of embezzlement and said don't worry I don't work there anymore.

    YES the people who witnessed the crimes, or helped cover them up are worthy of the same punishment. If you witness a murder, don't say anything about it, and are later linked to it, you will still be investigated. The punishment would be less severe that the murderer himself but there would still be jail time involved.

    I believe that a witness that doesn't do anything is just as responsible as the person committing the crime.I also think our "justice system" is flawed. But that is something I don't want to get into.

    This post was edited by Kevin Ryan on 7/10/2012 at 11:09 PM

    WintersComing

  • bramaekers said...

    When I say no one knows how deep it goes I am talking about the cover up. For all I know the head honcho of the university knew it was happening. There is no evidence one way or the other.

    Firing people means censored when they have all the money from their time there. It would be like if you were found guilty of embezzlement and said don't worry I don't work there anymore.

    YES the people who witnessed the crimes, or helped cover them up are worthy of the same punishment. If you witness a murder, don't say anything about it, and are later linked to it, you will still be investigated. The punishment would be less severe that the murderer himself but there would still be jail time involved.

    I believe that a witness that doesn't do anything is just as responsible as the person committing the crime.I also think our "justice system" is flawed. But that is something I don't want to get into.

    First of all, embezzling is a crime, so I could expect to get arrested if I'm caught, even after I leave.

    Secondly, covering up for a crime is punishable by law, so these guys may well be culpable. Considering that it was the HC and the President of the University, you can't go much higher up the chain, unless you're suggesting the Regents knew. As far as down the chain, as I said, everyone has been fired, and anyone who's culpable faces criminal charges.

    The University is not a person. The University did not cover-up anything. People did, and they all face possible criminal charges.

    First rule of law in this country is that you are INNOCENT until proven guilty in a court of law. You saying there's no evidence they're NOT guilty is comparable to saying they're all guilty until proven innocent. There is no presumption of guilt in our courts, and unless there is evidence then it's impossible to prosecute.

    Now, if someone wants to go after the money they made, they would have to sue them in civil court, just like they sued OJ. but that's a completely separate issue from the criminal charges.

    No, the people who may have witnessed the crimes are guilty of collusion for the cover-up, but they are not guilty of rape. Yes, if you witness a crime you could be prosecuted for that, but you aren't guilty of murder, and you aren't going to receive the same punishment, unless you abetted the crime in some way, then you might receive charges for murder. The murderer goes to the chair or gets life imprisonment, while the bystander would get a lesser sentence.

    These people did not commit rape. Sandusky did, and he will be punished because he was found guilty. Anyone who was culpable in covering it up will likely get far lesser punishments, because that is the way our system works. However, the last thing the State or the University or the NCAA wants is some goddammed witch hunt in which everyone, whether knowing or not, gets the exact same punishment.

    You think our justice system is flawed? Then I suggest you go to Saudi Arabia or Thailand to live. They probably have exactly the system you would prefer to live under.

    That's the most unAmerican statement I've ever heard.

    This post was edited by Kevin Ryan on 7/10/2012 at 11:10 PM

    If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

    daddyact

  • daddyact said...

    First of all, embezzling is a crime, so I could expect to get arrested if I'm caught, even after I leave.

    Secondly, covering up for a crime is punishable by law, so these guys may well be culpable. Considering that it was the HC and the President of the University, you can't go much higher up the chain, unless you're suggesting the Regents knew. As far as down the chain, as I said, everyone has been fired, and anyone who's culpable faces criminal charges.

    The University is not a person. The University did not cover-up anything. People did, and they all face possible criminal charges.

    First rule of law in this country is that you are INNOCENT until proven guilty in a court of law. You saying there's no evidence they're NOT guilty is comparable to saying they're all guilty until proven innocent. There is no presumption of guilt in our courts, and unless there is evidence then it's impossible to prosecute.

    Now, if someone wants to go after the money they made, they would have to sue them in civil court, just like they sued OJ. but that's a completely separate issue from the criminal charges.

    No, the people who may have witnessed the crimes are guilty of collusion for the cover-up, but they are not guilty of rape. Yes, if you witness a crime you could be prosecuted for that, but you aren't guilty of murder, and you aren't going to receive the same punishment, unless you abetted the crime in some way, then you might receive charges for murder. The murderer goes to the chair or gets life imprisonment, while the bystander would get a lesser sentence.

    These people did not commit rape. Sandusky did, and he will be punished because he was found guilty. Anyone who was culpable in covering it up will likely get far lesser punishments, because that is the way our system works. However, the last thing the State or the University or the NCAA wants is some goddammed witch hunt in which everyone, whether knowing or not, gets the exact same punishment.

    You think our justice system is flawed? Then I suggest you go to Saudi Arabia or Thailand to live. They probably have exactly the system you would prefer to live under.

    That's the most unAmerican statement I've ever heard.

    Don't call me out and say I am UNamerican. I agree with most of your post, and you reiterated exactly what I said. Don't imply that I am an idiot, I know that if you witness a crime that you aren't guilty of said crime, you are guilty of not coming forth and will have a reduced sentence or punishment. Which is what I said.

    Seriously DA I respect you a ton, but you crossed the line. If you think our system is perfect, and it couldn't be improved you are crazy. I didn't say it was horrible, I said flawed, meaning not perfect. Nothing in this world is perfect, but there are many things closer to it then the system by which we judge people.

    WintersComing

  • OldGoldKnights said...

    One big reason why OJ wasn't removed from the HOF is because the murders he was found guilty of (that is in civil, not criminal court) happened long after he was done playing football. What he did after football may be forever tainted in the eye of the public, but like it or not, it does not delete his football accomplishments from history. It's undeniably an odd situation though.

    BTW, another thing that makes the college HOF the worst of all the major HOFs is they say we take into consideration off the field things, basically. They can easily eject Joe.

    (Black Sox were on the field.)

    This post was edited by Kevin Ryan on 7/10/2012 at 11:12 PM

    BigGameJames

  • bramaekers said...

    Don't call me out and say I am UNamerican. I agree with most of your post, and you reiterated exactly what I said. Don't imply that I am an idiot, I know that if you witness a crime that you aren't guilty of said crime, you are guilty of not coming forth and will have a reduced sentence or punishment. Which is what I said.

    Seriously DA I respect you a ton, but you crossed the line. If you think our system is perfect, and it couldn't be improved you are crazy. I didn't say it was horrible, I said flawed, meaning not perfect. Nothing in this world is perfect, but there are many things closer to it then the system by which we judge people.

    when you say you have a problem with our justice system you are espousing an unAmerican sentiment.

    You may not like it,but that's the way our system works. Get right with it or leave.

    Never said you were an idiot, but you obviously do not have enough knowledge about why we have the system we have.

    Perhaps a history lesson or two.

    Idiot - No. Ignorant - maybe.

    This post was edited by daddyact on 7/10/2012 at 11:47 PM

    If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

    daddyact

  • BigGameJames said...

    BTW, another thing that makes the college HOF the worst of all the major HOFs is they say we take into consideration off the field things, basically. They can easily eject Joe.

    (Black Sox were on the field.)

    Not going to happen.

    Oh, and none of the Black Sox were already in the HOF. You can keep someone out of the HOF, but removing them is not going to happen.

    To my knowledge no player in any sport has ever been REMOVED from the respective HOF. Give me an example, and I will stand corrected.

    This post was edited by daddyact on 7/10/2012 at 11:50 PM

    If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

    daddyact

  • daddyact said...

    when you say you have a problem with our justice system you are espousing an unAmerican sentiment.

    You may not like it,but that's the way our system works. Get right with it or leave.

    Never said you were an idiot, but you obviously do not have enough knowledge about why we have the system we have.

    Perhaps a history lesson or two.

    Idiot - No. Ignorant - maybe.

    Your passive aggressiveness is almost laughable. Do all of your posts come with digs?

    This statement is the definition of unamerican: You may not like it, but that's the way our system works. Get right with it or leave.

    America, the united states, was formed with ideals based around challenging truths. If females just accepted the fact that they couldn't vote and didn't have the same rights or left where would we be today? Without challenging our government, friends or peers no change would happen, no advancement would take place. America is based upon the ability to formulate your own opinion and conclusions.

    You ARE NOT going to tell me that because I don't think our justice system is perfect that I have to leave, that is the biggest load of bs ever. I understand innocent until proven guilty, and agree with that 100%, but you automatically ASSumed that I disagreed with the very core principals of the justice system. Our current system has evolved from what it was when it was originally set up. It will continue to evolve also. It, like anything else, isn't perfect, but it is closer to perfect than bad. The main issue I have is with how we handle youth crimes in general. One area that I think is flawed is that I think there should be a standard age for being tried as an adult. I don't think that if the age is 18 that it is okay to bump a 14 year old into the adult category based on the severity of the crime. If the age is 18 it is 18. If it is 16 then its 16. I prefer cut and dry. I also have a huge issue with the insanity plea, and those that go for it and try to lessen their sentence. People who will fake being insane to try to get away with a lesser punishment. That system was but in place for people who were mentally ill, those that didn't know the severity of the acts they committed. The people that honestly believed that what they were doing was fine. I'm sure I could think of more, but those two jumped out at me first.

    This post has been edited 3 times, most recently by WintersComing on 7/11/2012 at 7:43 AM

    WintersComing

  • Where did I say they were in the HOF?

    The fact (?) that it has not happened does not mean it won't.

    People get honors taken away all the time when things come to light that showed who they really were.

    See jp and big 10 trophy.

    BigGameJames

  • BigGameJames said...

    Where did I say they were in the HOF?

    The fact (?) that it has not happened does not mean it won't.

    People get honors taken away all the time when things come to light that showed who they really were.

    See jp and big 10 trophy.

    i was responding to braemakers, not you.

    As to the chages made by the B1G, that's a completely different matter. HOFs are made up of voters, usually from the media, not the commissioner of the conference. Delaney had no trouble removing Joe's name from the trophy, with the consent of only twelve schools.

    The CFB HOF is not going to kick Joe Paterno out of the Hall, like it or not.

    There have been murderers in the HOF that have never been removed.

    If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

    daddyact

  • bramaekers said...

    Your passive aggressiveness is almost laughable. Do all of your posts come with digs?

    This statement is the definition of unamerican: You may not like it, but that's the way our system works. Get right with it or leave.

    America, the united states, was formed with ideals based around challenging truths. If females just accepted the fact that they couldn't vote and didn't have the same rights or left where would we be today? Without challenging our government, friends or peers no change would happen, no advancement would take place. America is based upon the ability to formulate your own opinion and conclusions.

    You ARE NOT going to tell me that because I don't think our justice system is perfect that I have to leave, that is the biggest load of bs ever. I understand innocent until proven guilty, and agree with that 100%, but you automatically ASSumed that I disagreed with the very core principals of the justice system. Our current system has evolved from what it was when it was originally set up. It will continue to evolve also. It, like anything else, isn't perfect, but it is closer to perfect than bad. The main issue I have is with how we handle youth crimes in general. One area that I think is flawed is that I think there should be a standard age for being tried as an adult. I don't think that if the age is 18 that it is okay to bump a 14 year old into the adult category based on the severity of the crime. If the age is 18 it is 18. If it is 16 then its 16. I prefer cut and dry. I also have a huge issue with the insanity plea, and those that go for it and try to lessen their sentence. People who will fake being insane to try to get away with a lesser punishment. That system was but in place for people who were mentally ill, those that didn't know the severity of the acts they committed. The people that honestly believed that what they were doing was fine. I'm sure I could think of more, but those two jumped out at me first.

    I've decided that this is a purely stupid argument. I didn't even get past your first sentence.

    As I said, we have the system of justice we have because the founders decided it was better to presume someone's innocence rather than guilt, and to make the accuser prove that guilt.

    You don't like it. Fine! I don't care where you choose to live. I was only giving you some options. Do whatever you want with that.

    Oh, and fortunately or not, every state is allowed to abide by their laws, as long as they don't contradict the laws of the Republic. That's so the citizens of that state can live by the dictates of their conscience.

    You want to make a uniform set of laws that everybody has to live by, it's okay by me. See how well you sell that to Texas, New York, or California voters.

    If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

    daddyact

  • daddyact said...

    I've decided that this is a purely stupid argument. I didn't even get past your first sentence.

    As I said, we have the system of justice we have because the founders decided it was better to presume someone's innocence rather than guilt, and to make the accuser prove that guilt.

    You don't like it. Fine! I don't care where you choose to live. I was only giving you some options. Do whatever you want with that.

    Oh, and fortunately or not, every state is allowed to abide by their laws, as long as they don't contradict the laws of the Republic. That's so the citizens of that state can live by the dictates of their conscience.

    You want to make a uniform set of laws that everybody has to live by, it's okay by me. See how well you sell that to Texas, New York, or California voters.

    You should have read my whole post. I agree that our argument is a stupid one.

    WintersComing

  • bramaekers said...

    You should have read my whole post. I agree that our argument is a stupid one.

    Why would I waste my time on the minutia of the justice system, as you seem to want to?

    If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

    daddyact

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    WintersComing

  • daddyact said...

    Why would I waste my time on the minutia of the justice system, as you seem to want to?

    You can spend your time however you wish. I apologize for my abrasiveness. I took you calling my comment unamerican personally, and felt like you jumped to some conclusions.

    I think our system is the one of if not the best, but that doesn't mean that it can't be improved.

    WintersComing

  • bramaekers said...

    You can spend your time however you wish. I apologize for my abrasiveness. I took you calling my comment unamerican personally, and felt like you jumped to some conclusions.

    I think our system is the one of if not the best, but that doesn't mean that it can't be improved.

    It was an unAmerican comment, imo. You can take that for what it's worth. I know a lot of conservatives who think I'm unAmerican. shrug

    If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

    daddyact

  • daddyact said...

    It was an unAmerican comment, imo. You can take that for what it's worth. I know a lot of conservatives who think I'm unAmerican. shrug

    I would classify myself as a conservative. I don't think you are unamerican, just opinionated. I enjoy reading your posts. I disagree about it being unamerican, but it is fine if you think it is. We wont agree on everything, but there is one thing we agree on, go big red.

    WintersComing

  • bramaekers said...

    I would classify myself as a conservative. I don't think you are unamerican, just opinionated. I enjoy reading your posts. I disagree about it being unamerican, but it is fine if you think it is. We wont agree on everything, but there is one thing we agree on, go big red.

    Tea Party?

    If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

    daddyact

  • daddyact said...

    Tea Party?

    Just trying to be civil. Have a good day.

    WintersComing

  • bramaekers said...

    Just trying to be civil. Have a good day.

    Ah! GBR!

    If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

    daddyact

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